102 replies to this topic

[RYAN PANG]

matt dalton, on 14 May 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Well you shoulda seen Long Beach this weekend..twice as many people were there I'm sure of it..20,000 tons of pc..trust me dude I can cook any(KCBS ,PNWBA,IBCA)and I don't care if it was 2 hours between turn ins or 20 minutes..why we cook KCBS is exactly why we don't cook other bodies anymore and we have in the past..is because we know we will be judged equally and fairly..like was mentioned before the best rise to the top..

Matt,
No doubt in your skills or of that of your team to pc.
I don't believe you understand that my point is this;

I like the choice to chose other sanctioning bodies.
You can dislike it, not participate in it, your choice.

But for the growth of the cbbqa member base and spectator base more options are good.
I'm just a rookie, but I like the format because I don't have a huge crew or major sponsorships so that 30 minutes and extra cooker early is great to bring in some Bbq expense $.

I want to see these, you don't. No worries.

I do see advantages and disadvantages,
But this topic is not so black and white as
Kcbs vs pwnba

To explain the differences and let the cookers decide which format is right...for them.
It just seems that such a strong negative view become a cancer and that is no good for those who just want to go play and you have made your position clear.
Your not changing my mind and I'm not going to try to change yours.
We choose what we choose

BTW.
We turned our ribs in with one minute left.
It must of Sat waiting for almost all other entries because I saw no one as we walked back.
It scored highest of any catagory there.

[RYAN PANG]

Just cause you like your sandbox at your park,
Does not mean you have to destroy my sandbox in my park

We can all play where we want.

Edited by RYAN PANG, 14 May 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[Anna Stockel]

Bill Bain, on 14 May 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

The boxes sit the same amount of time in KCBS as in PNWBA.

PNWBA gets the food to the judges hotter than KCBS and that's a fact.

I completely disagree on both points.

1) At a judging table at a KCBS contest with 30 minutes between meat turn ins no team's entry gets judged for appearance more than two to three minutes apart and no team's entry gets judged for taste and tenderness 30 minutes after another team's entry. If you think I'm wrong at least back it up with some facts. Just saying it's a fact doesn't make it so. I already did the math for PNWBA using Tracy's stated times and assuming best case. I don't think it's ever taken me longer than 10 minutes to work my way through a plate of six entries, it's probably more like 5. Of course it doesn't take any longer at PNWBA to actually taste and judge the meat, all that additional time can be attributed to all of the overhead in the procedure.

2) Our entries were in no way delivered to the table hotter than any KCBS contest that I've judged. I think it was about the same for the 1st PNWBA entries and went down hill from there. Which pretty much makes sense given that each subsequent entry sat an additional 5 minutes on the turn in table.

I have no agenda other than to contribute information to this discussion and think that accusations and insults detract from its usefulness and the overall quality of the forum. I couldn't care less who sanctions any particular competition.

Edited by Anna Stockel, 14 May 2012 - 08:02 PM.

[Darry Smith]

RYAN PANG, on 14 May 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Funny how you nay sayers are so dead set against pwnba and you insist its less liked than kcbs.

THE FACT is that
Morgan hill pwnba event is the largest turnout so far this year with 43 teams in california...I

It's marketed very well and it shows.

Hello Ryan,

Morgan Hill with KCBS was 67 teams...with PWNBA it was 43 teams. This speaks volumes.

[RYAN PANG]

Darry Smith, on 14 May 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

Hello Ryan,

Morgan Hill with KCBS was 67 teams...with PWNBA it was 43 teams. This speaks volumes.

Really?
Still on this?

As far as it speaking 'volumes'

This year there are twice as many northern California comps to chose from,
And the economy and gas prices took some away from the field too.
So don't try to make pwnba the culprit or the comp killer.

But my point was it is a choice.
I like choices.
Morgan hill was a great comp. Pwknba or not.
Teams got great feedback...


And to date largest field year to date in California.

Much better turnout than the first year kcbs event in Ontario,
Which had more prize spots than competitors.

So where were the kcbs diehards for that.

I have made my point that I like it, and understand you don't.
I'm not knocking anyone for their opinions,
Just the fact that one can have an opinion, state it, justify it,
but I don't think it needs to be justified at the cost of cbbqa's growth with working with other sanctioning bodies ,giving competitors a choice and holding the judges accountable.
The comment cards could be a great tool for those who strive to get better.

Not everyone does Bbq for kcbs standings some do it for fun and the challenge and pwnba is just another avenue for the cbbqa to get members and spread the joy of Bbq.


I have said my words and hope that some others of you who judged or competed can chime in your thoughts.
Good or bad.

[matt dalton]

Ryan..the comp in Ontario had a lot of issues that's why a lot of teams didn't show including us and it's been the closest comp to home for us yet plus there were other factors..yes Morgan Hill has the biggest team count so far but its going to change in just 5 days..Bakersfield currently has 48 teams signed up maybe more by Saturday..3 weeks after that is Kristies that will have 50+..Dana Point will have probably 60(he had 50 last year and had to turn away teams)..Pechanga is looking like 50 too..I could go on and on..but like you said you like the choice to cook other bodies and that's just fine..there will always be people that don't like one or the other but as far as this country goes and I do mean the whole enchilada..as Kenny Lee has said before..KCBS is the stick by which competition BBQ is measured..anyway my main issue with this whole thing isn't KCBS vs PNWBA it's that boxes were sitting on the turnin table for long periods of time and weren't judged quickly at all..plus there were inconsistencies..just look at the comments from the judges that have posted here in this thread..it needs to be a more level playing field..shouldn't everyone get a fair shot?..so that's all I'll let this die now and make my choices just like you..as far as fun we have a great time just ask anybody maybe too much sometimes but at the end of the day we wanna win too..this is comp BBQ afterall right?..have a good one.

Edited by matt dalton, 15 May 2012 - 05:24 AM.

[Tom Moore]

My goodness, I think people are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Have fun everybody!!!

[Bill Bain]

The loudest voices against PNWBA in this discussion, Smitty and Matt, didn't cook Morgan Hill.

[Dave Malone]

Morgan Hill has always been a very popular contest with both the teams and the public. I had a great time when I was there last year. My Pork and Brisket tends to dry out fairly quick and if I was judged late in the process it would alter the taste and tenderness. I wasn't trying to offend anybody but stated my opinion based on the judges comments. It sounds like it was a very well run contest and that everybody had a lot of fun. Yes, choices are a good thing! Hope to see many of you at Kristies in June.

[Benny Adauto]

I'll be there!

[matt dalton]

matt dalton, on 15 May 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

We both cooked it last year Bill..you already know why we didn't this year..how about if the shoe was on the other foot..what if you worked your butt off to cook great BBQ and come to find out your box sat on a table for 30 min after you turned it in but the guy that turned his in first was judged within a few minutes??..I know you don't compete and just judge but it needs to be fair and consistent for ALL not just a few lucky ones who turned their meat in first.

Bill Bain, on 15 May 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

The loudest voices against PNWBA in this discussion, Smitty and Matt, didn't cook Morgan Hill.

We both cooked it last year Bill..you already know why we didn't this year..how about if the shoe was on the other foot..what if you worked your butt off to cook great BBQ and come to find out your box sat on a table for 30 min after you turned it in but the guy that turned his in first was judged within a few minutes??..I know you don't compete and just judge but it needs to be fair and consistent for ALL not just a few lucky ones who turned their meat in first.

Edited by matt dalton, 15 May 2012 - 07:03 AM.

[Abel Tirre]

matt dalton, on 15 May 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

what if you worked your butt off to cook great BBQ and come to find out your box sat on a table for 30 min after you turned it in but the guy that turned his in first was judged within a few minutes??.

I know nothing about PNWBA, but WOW a box sat for 30 minutes??? Is that normal or a one time problem?

30 minutes really?? Wow!

[Bill Bain]

FYI, everyone was treated the same and that is all you can ask of a competition.

[Tom Moore]

WOW this thread has more lives than a cat.

[Butch Richardson]

I think this thread has run its course. Both sides have stated their opinion and it's clear what they are.

Gonna close it soon unless some new lightning bolt of information comes up.

[matt dalton]

Bill Bain, on 15 May 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

FYI, everyone was treated the same and that is all you can ask of a competition.

How can that be?..again what about the guys box that sat for 30 min?.it's impossible for the first and last boxes to be equal..these are just the facts that were brought out Bill..you can't justify it because it's not fair for the last guy.plain and simple

[Abel Tirre]

I'm still shocked and amazed at the 30 min delay. If that's standard there really isn't anything left to discuss. That's just flat out insane.. Why any team would cook knowing there box could sit up to 30 min before being judged is just ridiculous.

[Andrew Soto]

Abel Tirre, on 15 May 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

I'm still shocked and amazed at the 30 min delay. If that's standard there really isn't anything left to discuss. That's just flat out insane.. Why any team would cook knowing there box could sit up to 30 min before being judged is just ridiculous.

Because it's easlier and you can get some PC sold? just sayin.........
Oh, and its easier than turning in every half hour!!

[Abel Tirre]

Yeah I guess if your focus was on PC and you only competed because it was part of the cost either way, but Wow 30 minutes!!!

Out of almost 20 comps I've only been to 1 that had 30 min turn in so I would think that's an exception to the rule not the standard. Either way 30 min WoW!!

[Rebekah Juencke]

We don't always do PC as many other teams often opt not to, our team PREFERS KCBS on a competition level and we mainly go for the CONTEST, not just PC and we prefer the half hour between turn ins. We sometimes drive a long distance to go to a contest of our choosing and like the turn in to be done in a timely manner so we can load up and head home and because it's what we are used to and what we prefer but we can adapt to anything if we choose/need to.

We wouldn't go out of our way to go to a PNWBA contest like we would a KCBS contest but we will compete in them. We will do WOW as it's our hometown and our sponsor but it certainly is not our first choice especially since it started out as a KCBS contest but it is what it is and we will happily participate as it's promoting BBQ in our hometown. We also like to support our local promoters, Ben and Ric as they have put on some amazing events no matter what sanctioning body was used and we like to give back to them for all they have done for us.

We have participated in all 3 and they are vastly different in judging and competing. We are all entitled to choose where we want to spend our competition money and we prefer KCBS. I am worried about the judging issue brought to light on this thread but I see no need for the rudeness that some members display on here.

I was not at Morgan Hill this year either as we were in the past but I really don't need to have been there competing to be concerned about the judging process that took place at this contest if I plan on competing in a future PNWBA contest as we will Aug 18th. I think members have a right to air their complaints on this forum/thread in order to make sure this does not happen again in the future. I don't see it as complaining, I see it as a valid issue that needs to be address.

I don't see a need for a nasty attitude however. I don't think anyone was trying to sway anyone toward one sanctioning vs another, I think a valid point/issue was brought to everyone's attention and SHOULD be addressed. But what do I know?

Just my $.02