148 replies to this topic

[Kenny Lee]

Vance Salvador, on 13 January 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Besides both being really good cooks, I think both teams doing over 20 KCBS competions might've helped a little.

Considering it was harry and Adams highest point totals.

Can't win the Super Bowl if you play in the cfl

I'm not knocking the pnwba. The measuring stick in the US is kcbs

Edited by Kenny Lee, 13 January 2012 - 05:27 PM.

[Vance Salvador]

Kenny Lee, on 13 January 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

The measuring stick in the US is kcbs

I totally agree

[mark evenson]

My only observation on the switch from KCBS to PNWBA at MH is a feeling that overall team attendance may be less than last year. However with new teams enetering the filed and assuming that MH gets TOY sanctioning it may not affect attendance. Like John , my entries are going to be smaller this year, for me, financial reasons, and I will choose which comps I attend based on location, entry fee and who the promoters are. I have found Ben and Ric to run a fine comp and will continue to support them by my attendance as I can.

Mark

[Benny Adauto]

I will be competing at the Long Beach contest because it is very close to my home. If the LB contest was PNWBA, IBCA or BCS sanctioned, I would still be there. Will a GC at Morgan Hill count less than a GC at Long Beach beacause of the sanctioning body? It will still get a team an invite to the Royal and a bung for the JD draw. Comparing ourselves with other teams across the country really doesn't mean too much until teams have cooked in 10 events.
As for the rules, they are virtually the same. A team can adjust their timing for the different turn-in schedule. The meat is still judged by the same people, they're not importing judges from WA for the contest. The turn-in boxes do not have to be changed at all. Cook the best you can and the scores will reflect how the judges felt about it.

[matt brailey]

John Jackson, on 13 January 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

We will only be able to compete in 5 or 6 contests this year. I am glad that now we have enough contests where we can do all KCBS since it is our preference. I do feel for the teams that are interested in the CBBQA ToY that prefer KCBS. I don't think you will have a decent chance unless you compete at M.H. So now it could become a requirement to learn to cook a different sanctioning bodies rules to be a CBBQA ToY contender. I dont think it has been that way in past years.

IBCA has played a role in the past. Particular when Stagecoach was a bigger event. That year, ToY was more or less done after that weekend.

Many times the smaller IBCA events have had influence on ToY because they helped teams win bonus points.

Matt

[Sylvie Curry]

Someone please clarify for me if I am missing something. KCBS sanctioning is important only for those in the points chase for KCBS TOY and category ratings. Be it PNWBA, BCS, KCBS, NEBS, FBA, etc, you still may qualify for the American Royal, get a bung for the Jack and get rated by the National BBQ rankings depending on numbers of teams per event, and whatever other rules which also may pertain to KCBS.

You only have to be a KCBS member to compete in a Sam's Club event and to accumulate points for the TOY.

Other than the TOY race, I don't understand why there is a preference for KCBS sanctioned events except for those 3-4 ironman teams mentioned previously who are in the KCBS race competing in over 20 events per year.

I have cooked BCS, KCBS and IBCA. I found good and bad points for each. Overall, I just enjoyed the individual cook. We are now thankful that we have many events in California giving us a choice.

Promoters may have their own reasons for picking one sanctioning body over another. I am sure that their choice is based on many factors and for sure, it is the one that most fits having a sucessful event.

[John Jackson]

Our longer term goal is to someday travel and compete in 20 KCBS contests. It does not make sense to us to compete in any non KCBS contests when this is our goal. We have nothing against any other sanctioning body. We have a limited time and money budget to do this so we need to make sure all of our effort goes towards KCBS sanctioned contests. As long as we can use only KCBS contests to tune up that's what we will do.

[Bill Bain]

John Jackson, on 16 January 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

Our longer term goal is to someday travel and compete in 20 KCBS contests. It does not make sense to us to compete in any non KCBS contests when this is our goal. We have nothing against any other sanctioning body. We have a limited time and money budget to do this so we need to make sure all of our effort goes towards KCBS sanctioned contests. As long as we can use only KCBS contests to tune up that's what we will do.

I'm confused by your post, maybe I'm missing something.

[John Jackson]

Bill Bain, on 16 January 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm confused by your post, maybe I'm missing something.

Not this year maybe next year we want to travel the country and compete in the KCBS ToY. Since we can only compete a limited amount between now and then we want to concentrate on tuning our KCBS game. Hence only competing in KCBS contests.

[matt brailey]

John Jackson, on 16 January 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

Not this year maybe next year we want to travel the country and compete in the KCBS ToY. Since we can only compete a limited amount between now and then we want to concentrate on tuning our KCBS game. Hence only competing in KCBS contests.

John,

Given that the only real difference between KCBS and PNWBA seems to be the timing of the turn in, I'm not sure that you really lose much of anything in terms of preparation for KCBS events. Especially since the judges are all the same.

What you might lose is interest in the event from the heavy hitter teams that would potentially travel from out of state, but I can't really say that is more than a guess on my part.

From my personal competitive perspective, I'd prefer KCBS because the points accrue nationally and I like seeing our team name on their list. However since we are competing less than in previous years, it isn't that much of a big deal.

Matt

[John Jackson]

matt brailey, on 16 January 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

John,

Given that the only real difference between KCBS and PNWBA seems to be the timing of the turn in, I'm not sure that you really lose much of anything in terms of preparation for KCBS events. Especially since the judges are all the same.

What you might lose is interest in the event from the heavy hitter teams that would potentially travel from out of state, but I can't really say that is more than a guess on my part.

From my personal competitive perspective, I'd prefer KCBS because the points accrue nationally and I like seeing our team name on their list. However since we are competing less than in previous years, it isn't that much of a big deal.

Matt

Your probably right they are similar enough to leverage almost the same value. We have a time and Money budget for 5 or 6 contests. We want to do 3 out of state contests LV one in AZ and maybe Boise music festival if it goes again. We will do Brentwood and Oakland for sure. That is 5. So it is not so much the Sanctioning as our ability to compete in more contests.

[matt brailey]

John Jackson, on 16 January 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Your probably right they are similar enough to leverage almost the same value. We have a time and Money budget for 5 or 6 contests. We want to do 3 out of state contests LV one in AZ and maybe Boise music festival if it goes again. We will do Brentwood and Oakland for sure. That is 5. So it is not so much the Sanctioning as our ability to compete in more contests.

I hope you come down to Morgan Hill and say hello anyway. The peach cobbler vendor alone from last year makes the drive worthwhile.

[Jason Clark]

KCBS, BCS, PNWBA, FBA, TSA, TNA (oh yea) who cares what the sanctioning body is. Come on out, kick back, take a load off, burn some meat and have a nice weekend in Morgan Hill. Ever since the KCBS pulled their shenanigans last year by trying to screw over a certain BBQ event I have been wanting to to see more outside sanctioning bodies get a foot in the door here in CA. PNWBA is welcome with open arms in my book.

Too bad the Santa Maria comp didn't last, it was IBCA. Oakland was IBCA, it looks like it had a pretty good turn out. KCBS is not the only game in town. We need to make them want to be part of the CBBQA not the other way around.

[Ric Gilbert]

Before we get any old fires rekindled let me express that the decision to go with the PNWBA had everything to do with how it fits this particular event. I also think they have unique scoring system that provides optimum feedback to the teams.

ric

[Johnny Parrry]

Ric Gilbert, on 17 January 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Before we get any old fires rekindled let me express that the decision to go with the PNWBA had everything to do with how it fits this particular event. I also think they have unique scoring system that provides optimum feedback to the teams.

ric

How does PNWBA fit morgan hill? What makes it better than KCBS? Im on the fence even coming to Morgan Hill.

[Ric Gilbert]

Johnny Parrry, on 23 January 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

How does PNWBA fit morgan hill? What makes it better than KCBS? Im on the fence even coming to Morgan Hill.

Johnny,

It is my opinion that the PNWBA judging system offers a better form of feedback to the teams. You do not just receive a number; you also receive written feedback from each judge for every entry. To better my game, feedback is the most important tool I can receive as a cook.

Last year there were a high number of late boxes turned in resulting in disqualifications. Many new teams show up at this event each year and several of them missed turn in times along with a few of the more experienced teams. With one hour turn in times, and the long cooks out of the way, we hope to minimize this.

Morgan Hill is for the people and the cooks, it is a symbiotic relationship and a balance must be found. The flames that keep Morgan Hill alive are fanned by the attendees who come to eat bbq and talk with the teams. Attendees want to feel engaged and entertained, if they are not, they will not come back…end Morgan Hill. People want to talk with you about your bbq, ask questions, learn something, share an opinion and get your recommendations. If you are tearing down equipment at 1:30 the overall image of the event is compromised and we have failed to provide the attendees and you the opportunity to interact with each other.

Regarding People’s Choice, Morgan Hill wants to do everything they can to make PC easier for the teams. According to the PC teams last year their number one and two challenges was time management and handling the volume of sales. Our experience shows that the one hour turn in times enable the Pit Boss to pay attention to both parts of his/her game and it creates an opportunity for the other teams to have more time to engage the attendees.

The face of bbq and competitions is changing and we must adapt to this. Change or doing something different does not always come easy to everyone. Some will choose to stay the course, others will embrace the challenge. If we fail to recognize these changes and do not make adjustments, history will repeat itself and the average lifespan of a competition will remain at 3-4 years.

Morgan Hill is a unique event and offers much for those who attend. One of the lowest entry fees in the state,the higest attended event in northern CA, the highest PC return 75/25, the largest payout in northern CA at $12,000, CBBQA TOY points and for the GC, an entry into the American Royal, and a bung for the Jack.

We hope you will join us this year.

BenRic

[mark evenson]

Ric, thanks for your detailed and very informative answer. I was asking myself the same question. It certainly does seem that PC is driving the BBQ comp world more than ever. I wonder whether there is a place for non-PC comps or better stated a place for teams that do not want to do PC and one that the promoters will be happy with that team decision?
Mark

[Ric Gilbert]

"...or better stated a place for teams that do not want to do PC and one that the promoters will be happy with that team decision? Mark E.

Mark, that is a balance we are trying to achieve with MH. PC is optional. We encourage both PC and non PC teams to participate.

ric

[Kevin Barteaux]

Ric Gilbert, on 25 January 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

With one hour turn in times, and the long cooks out of the way, we hope to minimize this.

Waddaya mean by "long cooks out of the way"?

[John Kelly]

Ric - would you please post a link to the PNWBA judging rules? Can a KCBS CBJ judge at this contest or must one be a PNWBA certified judge?