53 replies to this topic

[Bill Bain]

I would expect that most of the teams are very familiar with KCBS turn-in times, and the judges are used to the time requirements and have adjusted their judging process to accomodate the KCBS timeline. With that said, any change in the timing for the teams will be detrimental to them as timing is critical for any BBQ contest. Judges are much more flexible so I would suggest concentrating on the teams and their timing requirements. My vote, if it counts, is to maintain KCBS timelines. I don't have a dog in this fight since I will be a master judge at a non CBBQA contest on the same day and will be unable to attend. I would rather be at WOW but that's how things worked out this year.

[Rick Renaud]

Adam Hollman, on 04 March 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

It's time to break the mold! Let's give this new system a try. Change is hard, but usually well worth the effort.

Also, for those single and double teams it should help them be more competitive.

[Ric Gilbert]

deena77, on 04 March 2011 - 11:33 AM, said:

Just want to give you guys one more factor to think about when deciding if you want 1 hour or 30 min turn ins. We have a great system of providing comment cards to cooks which is possible because we do 1 hour turn-ins. In the 30 min scenario there just is not enough time for judges to complete that information. We have received excellent feedback from our teams, that they have found these comments very useful!

Just some food for thought.

Christene

This is an excellent point. This system beats the heck out of others using just numbers. How many times have you looked at your scores and wondered "how did they come up with that?"

ric

[Christene James]

We have found that judges really think more about the number and why they are giving it if they have to make comments. It's been very positively received in PNWBA.

[David Schmidt]

David Schmidt, on 03 March 2011 - 04:42 PM, said:

What evs, dude. We are flexible...don't much care...just happy to be there. we will likely NOT be doing PC...everybody like it that way...especially the Ps.

David

Rolling Bones Traveling BBQ Circus

p.s. - Thanks for putting this together Adam!

We have been swayed by the points made above, and now prefer the "hour apart" schedule...we have changed or vote. Thanks!

David

[matt brailey]

Adam Hollman, on 04 March 2011 - 09:14 AM, said:

I tend to agree with Benny. The differences seem slight...why not give it a chance?

Adam,

I do not mean this to be antagonistic, but you really should reserve judgement on this sort of thing until you actually have been through it a few times. Right now your statement is pure conjecture.

In my opinion, once you have a few contests under your belt, you will agree that while the differences might seem slight, they are substantial in terms of the deleterious effect on results. In short, many of us have given this sort of thing a chance already and we know what the net effect is and it isn't good.

Keep in mind that Benny is a member of the most successful team in California and competes more frequently than anyone else in the CBBQA. It stands to reason that changes in format that might cause the rest of us trouble are things he and Harry can easily handle.

Most teams have a tough enough time getting timing right when the format is familiar. When you add a timing change and couple the expectation of doing PC in parallel with turn ins (despite giving a generous hour between submissions) it is a recipe for disaster.

I am strongly in favor of keeping the standard KCBS turn in time intervals and order. If there is concern about people's choice, move the start time up an hour so everything is done by 12:30. That is a minimal change that has a small impact on start/finish time calculations and will allow comp and PC to be handled sequentially by most teams.

Matt

[Adam Hollman]

I can't argue on the experience point. I haven't competed yet, so take my opinions with that grain of salt. That said, I do plan on competing in this contest and my vote counts for just as much as everyone elses (ie. not much). It just seems to me that if the contest is sanctioned by PNWBA, we should play by their rules. The extra time and feedback is very appealing to me as a new team, so take that for what it is.

[Matt Damon]

Well, I'm certainly no veteran but i competed in several KCBS events last year as well as other non-sanctioned events and usually did PC as well. My feeling is to try something new. We are in the same boat and that is part of the challenge. KCBS is not the end all be all of BBQ and it seems like new sanctioning bodies are popping up all over. It goes to show how a team can be dynamic and adjust to the requirements of a different organization. Basically, it sounds fun to me!

Just my two-cents, well maybe three or four...

[Christene James]

It looks like 60 min turn ins are interesting to the cooks... We would love to be able to do the comment cards.

[Kevin Barteaux]

Is there any thought or reasoning to the PNWBA schedule, other than to be different from KCBS? Chicken after turning in brisket would be pretty tough for a one man team.

[Christene James]

Here's a response from one of our cooks

PNWBA -

11 Pork/ 12 Brisk/ 1 Chick/ 2 Ribs.

I can cook our program on 2x22" bullets with 2 briskets and 2 butts occupying one bullet, cooking at the same time They cook overnight and get finished and come off and held in my Cambros. That leaves me with 2 open cookers and plenty of time for the chicken and rib turn-ins.

KCBS -

12 Chicken/ 1230 Ribs/ 1Pork / 130 Brisket

So for this set up I use 3 bullets because I am one point I'm cooking all the meats at the same time and I use separate bullets for both chicken and ribs with the pork and brisket occupying the other remaining cooker.

Hope this helps.

Lynnae
Sugars BBQ

[Ric Gilbert]

Let me add one more thought to this. We are not locked into one way of doing this. We, cookers and promoters, have a unique opportunity to shape this event into something that fits our needs, interests and desires.
Kevin, I appreciate your comments and encourage more from others. Look at what we have already learned from the poll and the follow-up comments.

[Kevin Barteaux]

deena77, on 15 March 2011 - 11:08 AM, said:

Here's a response from one of our cooks

PNWBA -

11 Pork/ 12 Brisk/ 1 Chick/ 2 Ribs.

I can cook our program on 2x22" bullets with 2 briskets and 2 butts occupying one bullet, cooking at the same time They cook overnight and get finished and come off and held in my Cambros. That leaves me with 2 open cookers and plenty of time for the chicken and rib turn-ins.

KCBS -

12 Chicken/ 1230 Ribs/ 1Pork / 130 Brisket

So for this set up I use 3 bullets because I am one point I'm cooking all the meats at the same time and I use separate bullets for both chicken and ribs with the pork and brisket occupying the other remaining cooker.

Hope this helps.

Lynnae
Sugars BBQ

Thanks Lynnae. Do you have any time crunch cooking the chicken after turning in the brisket? The reason I ask is that my competition chicken takes just about a full hour and I need to tend to it constantly.

[Ric Gilbert]

Kevin, we can explore changing the rotation if the standard PNWBA poses too many problems. Based on the poll and numerous others I have spoken with, I am pretty sure we are going to go with the one hour turn-in times. This allows the judges to focus more on your product and time to write up comment cards. For me, as a competition cook, I want as much feedback as possible on my product, just giving me numbers doesn't necessarly help me figure out what I am doing right or wrong.

[Kevin Barteaux]

Agree 100%. Plus I just darn prefer the longer time between turn-ins.

[Bill Souza]

I think we are all just used the regular turn in times. It actually doesn't matter to me, what ever makes it easier for the PNWBA I'm pretty sure we can all adapt. Main thing on this contest is lets make it work. Hey is this going to be a CBBQA ToY event? Also when is WOW info going up on contest page?

[Adam Hollman]

Bill Souza, on 16 March 2011 - 03:21 PM, said:

Hey is this going to be a CBBQA ToY event?

If I read correctly, the CBBQA BoD still has to vote on this to approve it. I can only assume that would occur at the next board meeting...which, if I do my math correct, is tonight.

Since getting this event approved as a ToY event is important to me, as it should be to any team in Northern/North Central California, I am going to dial in and show my support for WoW being approved. Might be good if others who feel the same as I do join in as well.

[Ric Gilbert]

Adam Hollman, on 16 March 2011 - 03:32 PM, said:

If I read correctly, the CBBQA BoD still has to vote on this to approve it. I can only assume that would occur at the next board meeting...which, if I do my math correct, is tonight.

Since getting this event approved as a ToY event is important to me, as it should be to any team in Northern/North Central California, I am going to dial in and show my support for WoW being approved. Might be good if others who feel the same as I do join in as well.

Adam,

How do we get the dial in info?

Meeting today at 7:00 I believe.

[Adam Hollman]

I don't see a post for this month's meeting, however, the dial in number and pwd seem to be consistent from month to month. So, go to the member area and find the info from last month and you should be good. I am making some assumptions here, but that is what I plan to do at least.

[Adam Hollman]

I take that back. There is now a thread/post that has all the info. You will see it in the Members area.