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2011 CBBQA Team of the Year


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#161 Bill Bain

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:41 PM

"ĽNo two events can be sanctioned for ToY on any given weekend if they are within 300 miles of each other"


FYI, Stockton/Bakersfield is 230 miles.
Bakersfield/San Diego is 232 miles.
Bakersfield/Las Vegas is 281 miles.

Kansas City, Mo/Sioux City, IA is 275 Miles.


Perhaps the 300 mile restriction should be under discussion since any contest in Bakersfield will eliminate any sanctioned event in almost all of CA. With the economy as it is and with gas prices as they are teams will be looking to minimize their travel expenses. I would hate to see the smaller teams left out because travel is so expensive.

#162 Adam Hollman

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 08:04 PM

I would prefer the rule to be more along the lines of a second contest within a pre-defined boundry would require BoD approval to be considered and contests outside of that distance would automatically satisfy that requirement (and still be subject to the other rules and requirements). I am not a fan of rules that give no options, especially when such a large distance is at play. With the changes to the scoring that will place less emphasis on team count I would like to see rules that encourage more contests rather than put up road blocks to limit contests. Growth is key.

#163 Sylvie Curry

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 08:53 PM

View PostAdam Hollman, on 27 November 2011 - 08:04 PM, said:

I would prefer the rule to be more along the lines of a second contest within a pre-defined boundry would require BoD approval to be considered and contests outside of that distance would automatically satisfy that requirement (and still be subject to the other rules and requirements). I am not a fan of rules that give no options, especially when such a large distance is at play. With the changes to the scoring that will place less emphasis on team count I would like to see rules that encourage more contests rather than put up road blocks to limit contests. Growth is key.
What criteria would the BOD use to determine whether to approve "a second contest within a pre-defined boundry would require BoD approval to be considered"?

#164 Darry Smith

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 09:01 PM

A BoD with 3 promoters could be a problem? Certainly a conflict of interest.

Edited by Darry Smith, 27 November 2011 - 09:02 PM.


#165 Adam Hollman

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 09:08 PM

In my mind the biggest factor would be the area the contest would draw most of its teams from. Drawing a circle around a location does not do a very good job of defining this, especially in a state shaped the way ours is.

There could be other factors to consider as well. By putting a rule in place that does not allow for any judgement to be used in the decision making process, I think we would be handcuffing ourselves to make potentially bad decisions.

#166 Benny Adauto

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:13 AM

I agree with Adam about not setting a fixed distance to determine whether a contest gets TOY status. I would go further to say, if an organizer is a CBBQA member in good standing, pays his sanctioning fee and the contest meets all the requirements for TOY status, there should be no question about awarding the contest TOY status.

Let the free market decide which contests survive. Teams will determine where to compete based on their own criteria such as payout, travel distance, prestige or friendships as examples. For me, distance, entry fee and payout will be the first things I look at, with entry fee being the strongest. Then I add contest prestige and friendship with the organizer. A casino and real bathroom for the wife to enjoy may outweigh everything else in some cases.

Edited by Benny Adauto, 28 November 2011 - 07:15 AM.


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Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:22 AM

View PostJohn Bracamonte, on 27 November 2011 - 02:08 PM, said:


No two events can be sanctioned for ToY on any given weekend if they are within 300 miles of each other[*]And a few other misc items to clean up any ambiguities in the rules

At the risk of sounding obtuse, I assume double/back-to-back contests (little engine, knotts, for example) are a single "event" rather than two events. If the organization goes with this, or a similar rule, and this is not clarified surely someone will make an issue of it in the future. Perhaps this is, or can be part of the ambiguities to be cleaned up?

Thanks for all you work and support, John!

Edited by David Schmidt, 28 November 2011 - 09:58 AM.


#168 John Bracamonte

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:58 AM

View PostBill Bain, on 27 November 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

"ĽNo two events can be sanctioned for ToY on any given weekend if they are within 300 miles of each other"


FYI, Stockton/Bakersfield is 230 miles.
Bakersfield/San Diego is 232 miles.
Bakersfield/Las Vegas is 281 miles.

Kansas City, Mo/Sioux City, IA is 275 Miles.


Perhaps the 300 mile restriction should be under discussion since any contest in Bakersfield will eliminate any sanctioned event in almost all of CA. With the economy as it is and with gas prices as they are teams will be looking to minimize their travel expenses. I would hate to see the smaller teams left out because travel is so expensive.

Bill,

Here's my opinion on this:

Bakersfield is that one event that we have that is "middle" of the state and that has the ability to bring in a more balanced group of both North and South teams, and there could obviously be more in the future. If the restriction was reduced to 200 miles to support your examples above, a middle of the state contest could in a sense be killed off if there were also a northern contest (e.g., Stockton) and a southern contest (e.g., San Diego) on it's weekend. I don't know the actual numbers but I can safely assume that there is a much larger concentration of members closer to San Diego and to Stockton than there is Bakersfield.

While I am a believer that if a team's goal is to be competitive in ToY, some travel should be required to do so, by no means does this rule leave out teams that don't want to or can't travel. There is a good mix of both Northern and Southern contests that a team can choose from that would still allow that to do well in ToY, assuming they do well in the contests.

I also wanted to point out that there were 5 events this year that were > 300 miles from Bakersfield so with the 300 mile rule in place a contest like Bakersfield still doesn't own the state for that weekend.

Thanks for your comments.

#169 John Bracamonte

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:04 AM

View PostDavid Schmidt, on 28 November 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

At the risk of sounding obtuse, I assume double/back-to-back contests (little engine, knotts, for example) are a single "event" rather than two events. If the organization goes with this, or a similar rule, and this is not clarified surely someone will make an issue of it in the future. Perhaps this is, or can be part of the ambiquities to be cleaned up?

Thanks for all you work and support, John!

That is correct and thanks for bringing this up. I will make sure this is clear in the proposed language.

#170 John Bracamonte

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 03:51 PM

View PostAdam Hollman, on 22 November 2011 - 08:08 AM, said:

So, the BPS/ToY issue was brought up at the the BoD meeting last week but tabled due to the ToY Commissioner not being present.

This is such a big issue for not only the team involved directly but all teams since it affects a top 10 placing. Some teams may be trying to decide what contests they need to attend in the last month to secure their positions.

Because of this, I would think it would be better to get this decided one way or the other as soon as possible. Is there any sense of urgency to get a ruling made on this? When can we expect this to be resolved?

I would like to request that, out of respect for all teams in the 2011 ToY race, the board come to a decision on this issue as soon as possible.

Thank you.

Big Poppas Smokers has requested that they be withdrawn from the ToY race. They made this request before the decision on their appeal had been given to them. I won't get into their reason for the request, it will be up to them if they want to share that or not. This saddens me but unless I hear otherwise from them before the next ToY update (after Vista), I will honor their request.

#171 Ric Gilbert

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 06:02 PM

Wow.

#172 Thom Emery

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 06:59 PM

Ditto

#173 Rick Renaud

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:42 PM

Huh?

#174 Adam Hollman

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:22 PM

Very sad indeed.

#175 John Bracamonte

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 09:45 PM

ToY has been updated to include the Vista results. We are down to one last event for the year and at 38 teams so far, it's looking like it is going to be a good one. There are still spots that can be juggled in both the Overall and individual meat categories.

#176 Kevin Barteaux

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 12:31 PM

View Postmark evenson, on 22 November 2011 - 12:28 PM, said:

Thom, agree? disagree? "Dude" many interpretations possible.

Mark

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#177 Neil Strawder

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 09:45 AM

View PostBill Bain, on 27 November 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

"ĽNo two events can be sanctioned for ToY on any given weekend if they are within 300 miles of each other"


FYI, Stockton/Bakersfield is 230 miles.
Bakersfield/San Diego is 232 miles.
Bakersfield/Las Vegas is 281 miles.

Kansas City, Mo/Sioux City, IA is 275 Miles.


Perhaps the 300 mile restriction should be under discussion since any contest in Bakersfield will eliminate any sanctioned event in almost all of CA. With the economy as it is and with gas prices as they are teams will be looking to minimize their travel expenses. I would hate to see the smaller teams left out because travel is so expensive.

Las Vegas wouldn't be ToY because it's out of the state.

#178 mark evenson

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 09:56 AM

View PostNeil Strawder, on 21 December 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

Las Vegas wouldn't be ToY because it's out of the state.

That being said, I think that Bill has a valid point, one worthy of intense scrutiny.

Mark

#179 Ric Gilbert

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:24 AM

I fail to see the point of the 300 mile rule. Maybe someone can enlighten me?

ric

#180 matt brailey

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 11:57 AM

View PostJohn Bracamonte, on 27 November 2011 - 02:08 PM, said:

Other changes to ToY that are being discussed are:

  • Add language so if a contest is a Jack or Royal qualifier, it is considered a Professional level competition in regards to rookie eligibility.
  • Board has the final approval of an allowed contest sanctioning body for ToY
  • No two events can be sanctioned for ToY on any given weekend if they are within 300 miles of each other
  • And a few other misc items to clean up any ambiguities in the rules
A redlined version of the changes that are being proposed can be found here: 2012 ToY Changes v2.docx

John,

I reviewed the language in the doc.

Don't understand the need to reference Jack and Royal Qualifiers. Are there any qualifiers that are somehow not understood to be professional events?

I oppose the 300 mile requirement. It protects promoters without any added financial incentive to the organization and limits choices for teams.

I think Benny hit the nail on the head with his previous post and I'll paraphrase him in digest form here:

We should not set a fixed distance to determine whether a contest gets TOY status.

The free market should decide which contests survive.

As to the three point systems, they all have merit. My personal preference is your model without bonus points. It is a balanced approach. I did have a question with regard to the minimum number of teams. I am assuming, based on the spreadsheet that any contest smaller than 18 teams would not be a ToY event in your system. True?

Matt





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