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Score Sheets at Contests


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#1 Darry Smith

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 07:15 AM

First of all I hope you all know what a KCBS Fan I am and wish we could have every contest be a KCBS contest.

But I am seeing a bad trend, seems like now more than 4 times this past year Competitior's score sheets have not been ready after awards. I realize that there can be a hundred different reasons why this happens, but I really don't think the people in charge of this realize how important it is after you have slaved away over a hot pit for 15-20 hours to prepare the best BBQ you can you would like to have your results in detail.

I would gladly come to an awards ceremony an hour later, to allow things to come together in an organized fashion.

To simply say your score sheets will be up on Dan Cannon's website sometime this week doesn't cut the mustard.

I'd like to here from KCBS reps and promoters how we can do a better job in this area, what do you need us the cooks to do to help?

This is and has been my only complaint about KCBS contest in our state, but it dosen't seem to be getting any better.

Thank you for listening.

Darry Smith
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#2 Ben Lobenstein

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 07:37 AM

If that's your only complaint. LOL

#3 Vincent Carrocci

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 09:30 AM

I agree with Smitty about the importance of having the score sheet immediately after the awards ceremony. That is when the events of the day are freshest in our minds and it is the best time to review the scoring and determine how it pertains to what we each did during the cook.

I know there are many who toss the scores aside and don't look at them for a day or two and that is and should be their prerogative. But, for those of us who like to use the information right away, that too should be our prerogative.

#4 Bentley Meredith

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 09:33 AM

I just usually want them to see if I spanked Neil or Gary or Brian... ;) :o

#5 K & K MacIntosh

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 11:35 AM

Hi Smitty,


Thanks for your comments. Trust me when I say the KCBS Reps take the task of getting the results distributed in a timely manner very seriously and at the vast majority of contests they are available immediately after the awards.

I am not aware of what occurred at the other events you are referring to but this was a challenging contest with sixty teams in two divisions turning in and being judged at the same time. We also had seven different categories turned in on Saturday. These factors combined with the third Rep canceling at the last moment because of illness caused us to get behind on the data entry.

A judgment call was made to go ahead with the awards and work on the team results afterwards. In hindsight a 6:00pm awards ceremony would have been more appropriate.

To characterize the entire solution as going to Dan Cannon's site was not exactly accurate. I did refer to Dan's site at the awards but I also gave out my email address so teams could contact me directly. In addition to this we printed and collated the all of the results after the awards. We had several teams come by to pickup their results and then we walked the contest handing out the results to any teams that were still onsite. I also posted on the CBBQA forum that teams could contact me to get their results in a PDF form. I do realize that these solutions are a compromise and are not the same as getting the results immediately after the awards.

Wait until Clovis…


Kelly

#6 Darry Smith

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 12:20 PM

Hello Kelly,

Thank you for your comments as well.

I am merely letting anyone in charge of these decisions (on timely scoresheets) know that we do care.

So in the future if someone is wondering if it is a big deal or not to have score sheets ready to simply not to blow it off as "it doesn't matter to the teams as they will eventually get them".

The biggest advantage (IMO) KCBS has over a IBCA as we can tell where we did in fact finish if you are not lucky enough to be in the top group called.

I think you do a wonderful job, and my commnets are based on how KCBS can be even stronger.

See you in Clovis.

Edited by Darry Smith, 21 August 2008 - 12:59 PM.


#7 Kevin Barteaux

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 12:51 PM

Has KCBS considered going to electronic scoring? Having the judges enter their scores with hand-held devices like those used in classrooms, ect. would provide immediate results and prevent judges from changing their scores. Or we could even go back to the twentieth century and use scan-trons...

Maybe Geeks with Nice Butts could even write the software!

#8 Gene Goycochea

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 01:03 PM

I can only speak for one contest that the results were not all in time for the awards, the event provided a printer that ran out of ink, he thought it was a new cartridge, I advised him it said it was low before the start of printing, he said it always says that, it ran out of ink, another cartridge was purchased and the results went out, late but out....this is the only contest aside from what Kelly posted above that I am aware of, I do about 8 contests a year for more than 10 years and only had them late the one time that I am posting about....


Gene

#9 Darry Smith

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 01:23 PM

We've had three KCBS contest in the last year with late scoresheets.

San Jose/Clovis/Fairfield

Sounds like it will be taken care of going forward.

Thank you all for all you do.

#10 Gene Goycochea

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 01:55 PM

View PostKevin Barteaux, on Aug 21 2008, 09:51 PM, said:

Has KCBS considered going to electronic scoring? Having the judges enter their scores with hand-held devices like those used in classrooms, ect. would provide immediate results and prevent judges from changing their scores. Or we could even go back to the twentieth century and use scan-trons...

Maybe Geeks with Nice Butts could even write the software!


the cost for a system like that would be astranomical , there are weekends when there are 15 contests, KCBS would have to ship and return ship 15 packages 2 day air so that they could reship the next day back out again to the next set of contests the next weekend..... that would also not fix an out of ink problem....

15 contests X 40 judges = 600 units Wow, then the shipping both ways, membership would have to tripple in price and they would probably be broke in a year...

Edited by Gene Goycochea, 22 August 2008 - 01:56 PM.


#11 Neil Strawder

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 03:09 PM

View PostBentley Meredith, on Aug 21 2008, 10:33 AM, said:

I just usually want them to see if I spanked Neil or Gary or Brian... ;) :o

If I didn't beat you in brisket at Hesperia, I'd be offended by that.

Back on topic: I like spreadsheets right after the awards too.

#12 gary notley

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 09:07 AM

Thats what I do too.



View PostBentley Meredith, on Aug 21 2008, 09:33 AM, said:

I just usually want them to see if I spanked Neil or Gary or Brian... ;) :o


#13 Kevin Barteaux

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 11:56 AM

View PostGene Goycochea, on Aug 22 2008, 02:55 PM, said:

the cost for a system like that would be astranomical , there are weekends when there are 15 contests, KCBS would have to ship and return ship 15 packages 2 day air so that they could reship the next day back out again to the next set of contests the next weekend..... that would also not fix an out of ink problem....

15 contests X 40 judges = 600 units Wow, then the shipping both ways, membership would have to tripple in price and they would probably be broke in a year...
Yes, I guess that would be problematic with 15 contests going on at a time. Curious, does KCBS provide the computers and printers that are currently being used at each of their sanctioned contests?

Perhaps CBBQA could provide their own devices since there is only one event going on a time. The iclickers run about $20-$30 each.

#14 K & K MacIntosh

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 12:28 PM

View PostKevin Barteaux, on Aug 23 2008, 12:56 PM, said:

Yes, I guess that would be problematic with 15 contests going on at a time. Curious, does KCBS provide the computers and printers that are currently being used at each of their sanctioned contests?
Normally the Reps provide their own computers and printers. Occasionally the contest may supply a high speed printer if copying facilities are not available. FYI, at Fairfield we printed over 400 sheets.

Kelly

#15 Kristin Meredith

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 12:42 PM

View PostKevin Barteaux, on Aug 23 2008, 12:56 PM, said:

Perhaps CBBQA could provide their own devices since there is only one event going on a time. The iclickers run about $20-$30 each.


The CBBQA does not have anything to do with the various competitions going on in the state except to provide info about them on this forum and then having a ToY contest for CBBQA members who enter the events.

The events are organized and run by the promoter of the event (at Fairfield that was Ben). The organizer usually gets some sponsors who put up some of the money for prizes and contest expenses (including the costs to pay the sanctioning body for running the judging). The organizer also selects the sanctioning body. At Fairfield, the sanctioning body was KCBS. The CBBQA is just a BBQ Association, not a promoter, sponsor or sanctioning body.

#16 Darry Smith

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 09:08 AM

Excellent job by Kelly and Kathleen this weekend in Clovis.

Kudos to you both.

#17 Lacey Fisher

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 09:31 AM

View PostDarry Smith, on Sep 21 2008, 10:08 AM, said:

Excellent job by Kelly and Kathleen this weekend in Clovis.

Kudos to you both.

Ditto....

but don't forget Justice! :heart:

#18 Fred Stanek

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 09:44 AM

How about score cards that can be read by a computer?
I wouldn't mind donating some money to invest in a unit for the CBBQA.
I for one, want to see my scores at the awards.
Our contests are getting bigger, and this would help all of the people who compete, and the organizers.

#19 David Hill

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 12:41 PM

Pardon me for piggy-backing on this topic but after just completing a contest, albeit not a KCBS contest of the same scope, but with all the same components, I would like to add that having just walked a mile in my brothers' shoes, I will NEVER complain about any aspect of a contest again. Having said that, I know Smitty is not complaing, rather is asking constructively for change/improvement for the best interest of the organization. I do however hear "complaints" about this or that and I probably have been as guilty as the next guy. This morning is a new day for that. I have seen the light. To anyone that complains out loud; go run your own competition and try to get it right. Try to get it ALL right. Oh my f$#%@ God is it hard to do. This moring I am on my knees bowing to Ben and all those that do so much for us that we don't take enough time to appreciate. There is SOOOO unbelievably more that goes into a contest that at least I wasn't aware of and so much of it that can go wrong will go wrong. Things that are totally out of your control will happen and you have to juggle the wants and needs of hundreds of people simultaneousy. So please, appreciate the hard work the KCBS, the CBBQA and the promoters put into making our events as fun and successful as they are. They really do a fantastic job and we have a great thing going. We can make it better if we keep our comments positive and constructive. I'm not picking on Smitty (I only do that in person) I am try to compliment our Board, the promoters and the sponsors for the great job they do.
David

#20 Thom Emery

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 04:18 PM

Yep Thats been my experience




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