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2008 ToY Rules


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#1 Bram Britcher

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 04:38 PM

The 2008 Contest Season is around the corner. Some ToY Rules Changes were approved by the Board of Directors on 12 December. The '08 ToY Rules are now published on the Wiki.

2008 ToY Rules

Thanks to all the member teams for making '07 a great contest season and good luck in '08!

Bram Britcher
'07 ToY Commissioner

#2 Jason Fisher

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 04:42 PM

I like the changes in the rules for 08. This may be a good question for Thom, but any idea how IBCA will give scoring down through half of the field? Good job to the commitee that made these new rules. :thumbsup:

#3 Thom Emery

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 08:39 PM

In the IBCA we can do 50% on contests with use of a Semifinal Round
50 teams would be difficult but there are not too many of those.

#4 Kristin Meredith

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 09:37 PM

Who won most improved for 2007?

#5 Bram Britcher

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 10:20 PM

Kristin,
I actually haven't done the math for '07 yet. Have the baseline numbers from '06.
Will probably do it over holidays.

#6 Bentley Meredith

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 09:02 AM

How do we determine the top 12 teams in a contest like IBCA when we do not know where teams 13-14 placed? I thought your overall results in a contest were based on where you finished in each catagory? I am sure this has been thought through and there is an asnwer I am just not seeing?

Commish, can you explain how you determine the top 12 finishes in a contest like Wishland? Or am I not reading the rules right?


Article IV. Points awarded


4.01 – Contest Points
A team will earn contest points for a top half finish at a qualifying contest. The number of points awarded is based on the total number of teams entered in the contest excluding any teams who have zeros across the "overall" score sheet (failed to make turn-ins). First place is awarded points equaling the total number of active contestants; second place earns one fewer point, and so on down through the top half finishers. The number of finishes in the top half is calculated as total number of active teams in the contest (excludes any teams who have zeros across the "overall" score sheet) multiplied by 0.5 and is rounded up.

Example: 43 active teams * 0.5 = 21.5, rounds up to 22. So, the top 22 finishes in a 43 team field would earn contest points.

Edited by Bentley Meredith, 20 April 2008 - 09:03 AM.


#7 Bill Keyes

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 12:06 PM

View PostBentley Meredith, on Apr 20 2008, 10:02 AM, said:

How do we determine the top 12 teams in a contest like IBCA when we do not know where teams 13-14 placed? I thought your overall results in a contest were based on where you finished in each catagory? I am sure this has been thought through and there is an asnwer I am just not seeing?

Commish, can you explain how you determine the top 12 finishes in a contest like Wishland? Or am I not reading the rules right?

Bent,
I am not sure I understand the question completely, but my understanding is that with 24 teams, we only score the top 12 in category, which they called out. In IBCA, how it was explained to me, you can figure out how everyone place overall by
by the calls in category. If calling out 12, for a First, you get 12 points, 2nd you get 11, 3rd is 10, etc., to 12th you get 1 point. Add up the total points each team received, and that is how they placed.
Not sure if this answered your question, because I am not sure why you questioned 13th-14th placed? Those should not matter, as far as I know.
Bill



Article IV. Points awarded


4.01 – Contest Points
A team will earn contest points for a top half finish at a qualifying contest. The number of points awarded is based on the total number of teams entered in the contest excluding any teams who have zeros across the "overall" score sheet (failed to make turn-ins). First place is awarded points equaling the total number of active contestants; second place earns one fewer point, and so on down through the top half finishers. The number of finishes in the top half is calculated as total number of active teams in the contest (excludes any teams who have zeros across the "overall" score sheet) multiplied by 0.5 and is rounded up.

Example: 43 active teams * 0.5 = 21.5, rounds up to 22. So, the top 22 finishes in a 43 team field would earn contest points.


#8 Kristin Meredith

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 01:39 PM

I think the 13-14 was a typo, I think he meant 13-24.

We were trying to figure out how you could determine who the top 12 teams overall were for the contest since it is a completely blind judging and you don't know how the field did in all 24 places. For example, we weren't in the top 12 for chicken, pulled pork or ribs. However, if we were at a KCBS event and scored say 13th in each of those categories, with out first place finish in brisket then we would probably be in the top 12 overall. But since we don't know how we finished in those categories, we were trying to figure how the event goes out 12 place overall, not just 12 in each category.

#9 Bentley Meredith

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    --Bentley Dark Lord of the Pellet

Posted 20 April 2008 - 01:44 PM

View PostBill Keyes, on Apr 20 2008, 01:06 PM, said:

Bent,
I am not sure I understand the question completely, but my understanding is that with 24 teams, we only score the top 12 in category, which they called out. In IBCA, how it was explained to me, you can figure out how everyone place overall by
by the calls in category. If calling out 12, for a First, you get 12 points, 2nd you get 11, 3rd is 10, etc., to 12th you get 1 point. Add up the total points each team received, and that is how they placed.
Not sure if this answered your question, because I am not sure why you questioned 13th-14th placed? Those should not matter, as far as I know.
Bill

It was a typo Bill, should have been where teams 13-24 placed.

In a KCBS contest, all 4 meat scores are used to caculate the order of team finish? So how do you determine how the top 12 teams for ToY did in an IBCA contest where you dont know where all 24 teams finished.

If that is how the CBBQA is determining finishes for ToY it seems a bit Hokie!

I dont think your seniero will work for an overall placement, just for individual meat ToY.

So we got 24 points...where did we end up?

Edited by Bentley Meredith, 20 April 2008 - 01:50 PM.


#10 Thom Emery

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 02:24 PM

Overall based on Top Half Reveal in Category
For the 2008 CBBQA ToY as I understand it.

#11 Bill Keyes

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 02:25 PM

I hope someone who knows for sure steps in to clarify.
How the scoring was explained to me for GC and RGC is how I mentioned above. Example, we got a first(Pork), 3rd (Brisket)and a seventh (Ribs). No call on chicken. So we got 12 points for the first, 10 points for the third, and 6 for our seventh, for a total of 28 points.
So, I am going to guess that is how all the points are added for the top 12 overall placing. For what ever did not place in the top 12 in individual category, you do not receive points.
Like I said, I could be wrong, hope someone (Kelly, Thom, Bram) can step in and clarify. I think this is the only way it can work with IBCA type scoring.
I do understand you questioning. If this was KCBS scoring you can have a 13th or lower in each category, and that might place you in the top twelve overall. But, not IBCA.

Bill

#12 Bram Britcher

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 02:53 PM

View PostBill Keyes, on Apr 20 2008, 03:25 PM, said:

I hope someone who knows for sure steps in to clarify...

Western Pit IBCA scoring questions should be addressed to Thom and/or Kelly.

#13 Kristin Meredith

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 02:54 PM

So Tropical Heat would have 28 points and we have 12 points towards the overall score? And if eleven other teams have more than 12 points we would be in the top 12? But if there are 12 teams with more than 12 points we don't get any overall points for ToY, is that correct?

What if there are 11 teams with more than 12 points and then three teams all have 12 points -- i.e. how do you deal with tie breakers?

#14 Thom Emery

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 02:55 PM

View PostThom Emery, on Apr 20 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

Overall based on Top Half Reveal in Category
For the 2008 CBBQA ToY as I understand it.

The Double Blind System of the IBCA has a limiting factor
at a bigger Cook Off. If its 15 teams and 10 are revealed
Its very workable
Teams responded well to this contest so we were
beyond the ideal
Six months ago that was very hard to predict

#15 Kristin Meredith

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 02:58 PM

View PostThom Emery, on Apr 20 2008, 03:55 PM, said:

The Double Blind System of the IBCA has a limiting factor
at a bigger Cook Off. If its 15 teams and 10 are revealed
Its very workable
Teams responded well to this contest so we were
beyond the ideal
Six months ago that was very hard to predict

Not sure what this means. Are you and/or Kelly able to advise as to who placed in the top 12 overall or is that something that can't be done given the number of teams entered?

#16 Darry Smith

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 02:59 PM

Excellent question.

For example team A scores a 1st place in Brisket and Pork but unranked in the other 2 categories. Then team B scores a 1st place in chicken and ribs and unranked in the other 2 catagories...who finishes ahead between these two? Do we have a tie under these conditions?

In all of our discussions about the ToY rules (and changes) this point hasn't ever came up.

I'd like to hear from our ToY commisioner on this.

#17 Thom Emery

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 03:03 PM

Overall is based on the top half reveal

#18 Darry Smith

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 03:07 PM

So team A & team B would tie?

#19 Bram Britcher

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 03:30 PM

View PostDarry Smith, on Apr 20 2008, 03:59 PM, said:

Excellent question.

For example team A scores a 1st place in Brisket and Pork but unranked in the other 2 categories. Then team B scores a 1st place in chicken and ribs and unranked in the other 2 catagories...who finishes ahead between these two? Do we have a tie under these conditions?

In all of our discussions about the ToY rules (and changes) this point hasn't ever came up.

I'd like to hear from our ToY commisioner on this.
From Rules Section 4.01
...First place is awarded points equaling the total number of active contestants; second place earns one fewer point, and so on down through the top half finishers...

In Smitty's example, whether A & B are tied is a question to the sanctioning body, not the ToY Commissioner. I award points based on how the results are reported. To whatever extent the sanctioning body allows ties, I would award points to whomever is tied based on the rule above.
Example: 20 team field. 3rd place gets 18 points. 4 teams are tied for 3rd. All 4 teams will be awarded 18 points. With 4 teams at 4th place, the next team to receive points would be considered 7th place.



Bram

Edited by Bram Britcher, 20 April 2008 - 03:33 PM.


#20 Vincent Carrocci

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 03:31 PM

Smitty, for what it's worth, in your example I would award the higher place to Team A because of the higher finish in Brisket.





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