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Wiki: Advanced BBQ Judge Class - SoCal



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#1 Tracy Allen

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:52 PM

This is the discussion topic for the wiki article: Advanced BBQ Judge Class - SoCal

#2 Donna Fong

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:29 PM

This is an update on the advanced judges class enrollment. Both the NorCal and the SoCal classes have 19 students paid and enrolled. The student limit for the Riverside class is 60. For the Alameda class, it is topped out at 80. Since the class is already 30% full and it is only July, I expect that the class will be sold out well ahead of January. If you are thinking about participating, I'd enroll within the next couple of months. I am very pleased at the response we have been getting. We received payment from a student from Canada recently! I did expect those outside of the state to participate but not outside of the country. I will say that for the last few contests, we have had judges from all over the world so this is very exciting.

Keep spreading the word!

#3 Kevin Barteaux

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 05:03 PM

Hi Donna-

Is this a KCBS sanctioned class, or is it being put on interdependently by the CBBQA (or other)? Also, is being KCBS CBJ a prerequisite?

Thanks!

#4 Donna Fong

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:07 PM

Hi Kevin. This is independent of KCBS and there is no requirement to be a cbj though almost everyone, if not everyone, is. Feel free to join us.

#5 Thom Emery

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:41 AM

Donna How will organizers who are picking contest judges know if a KCBS CBJ is a CBBQA Advanced Class grad?


#6 Kevin Barteaux

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:00 AM

Thanks Donna, it sounds intriguing. Would you mind explaining the objectives of the class?

#7 scott gomes

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:53 AM

Donna, would there be other meats involved in the process like Tri-Tip or is it based on the four meats?

#8 Dana Myers

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:46 AM

I'm curious how the class topic "Presentation" releates to judging of meat appearance. Can you explain a bit how the two are related?

#9 Kay Spencer

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:17 AM

Hi guys, the content is still being developed. It is an excellent time now to make content suggestions...

#10 Donna Fong

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:36 AM

View PostThom Emery, on 22 July 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

Donna How will organizers who are picking contest judges know if a KCBS CBJ is a CBBQA Advanced Class grad?

Participation in the class will be recorded on the JudgeBBQ.com website. Just make sure you note that you are a registered user of the site and write down your JudgeBBQ code. Organizers will be able to see participation on your profile. Thanks for your question Thom.

#11 Donna Fong

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:38 AM

View Postscott gomes, on 22 July 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

Donna, would there be other meats involved in the process like Tri-Tip or is it based on the four meats?

Scott, I am covering Tri-Tip, beef back ribs and beef short ribs in the BBQ anatomy class. All parts of the chicken are covered and both types of pork ribs are covered. Thanks for your question.

#12 Donna Fong

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:43 AM

View PostKevin Barteaux, on 22 July 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

Thanks Donna, it sounds intriguing. Would you mind explaining the objectives of the class?

The class is meant to be an in-depth look at BBQ judging and provide some background information on the meats that can be presented in a BBQ contest. It takes an in-depth look at factors which contribute to Appearance, Taste and Tenderness. There WILL be some anatomy, biology, chemistry and history. The point is to take our judges that much farther in their knowledge of BBQ, types of meat they might encounter, how the animals are fed, how the quality and safety of meat is determined in the US, breeds, what types of animals are out there as food, what advances are being made in judging, and different types presentation and flavors are out there. Some of it is a bit geeky but I figured a good portion of us are meat geeks so why not? Hope this answers your questions Kevin.

#13 Donna Fong

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:44 AM

View PostDana Myers, on 22 July 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

I'm curious how the class topic "Presentation" releates to judging of meat appearance. Can you explain a bit how the two are related?

That one is being covered by our CBJ and cook, Amber. I'll ping her and ask if she'll answer your question. Thanks Dana.

#14 Kevin Barteaux

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:50 AM

View PostKay Spencer, on 22 July 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Hi guys, the content is still being developed. It is an excellent time now to make content suggestions...

Thanks Kay. The content should depend on the objective. If that is also up for discussion then I would like suggest finding a way to get more consistent scoring (i.e. minimize the "tables of death" and "lucky tables"). Possible ways to achieve this might be to:
  • Come to a consensus or understanding of what KCBS means by "Average"
  • Inform judges that knowingly score harder or easier than their fellow judges that they help create the tables mentioned above and introduce more luck into the outcome of the contests.
  • Somehow limit the amount of "super judging" or judges looking for things to judge that may not be part of the KCBS rules.


#15 Kevin Barteaux

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:55 AM

View PostDonna Fong, on 22 July 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

The class is meant to be an in-depth look at BBQ judging and provide some background information on the meats that can be presented in a BBQ contest. It takes an in-depth look at factors which contribute to Appearance, Taste and Tenderness. There WILL be some anatomy, biology, chemistry and history. The point is to take our judges that much farther in their knowledge of BBQ, types of meat they might encounter, how the animals are fed, how the quality and safety of meat is determined in the US, breeds, what types of animals are out there as food, what advances are being made in judging, and different types presentation and flavors are out there. Some of it is a bit geeky but I figured a good portion of us are meat geeks so why not? Hope this answers your questions Kevin.

Oops., looks like you posted your reply while I was typing up my response to Kay. Sorry about that!

Not that I think it is the case, but could some of the content you listed go against my third bullet point?

#16 Steve Wilson

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:50 PM

I think this is a very good idea. And I fully agree with Kevin that a clear understanding of what KCBS deems "average" is very important. I would like to see the class add a few seasoned cooks to the class topics to get their takes. Granted Harry, Donna and Scott all have a vast wealth of experience from the outside of the judge's tent, but I think it would be very important to have the judges understand what we cooks are striving for, and explain how we feel about the scoring. Get our take on average or what differentiates an 8 from a 9 to us.

#17 Donna Fong

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:02 PM

View PostKevin Barteaux, on 22 July 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

Thanks Kay. The content should depend on the objective. If that is also up for discussion then I would like suggest finding a way to get more consistent scoring (i.e. minimize the "tables of death" and "lucky tables"). Possible ways to achieve this might be to:
  • Come to a consensus or understanding of what KCBS means by "Average"
  • Inform judges that knowingly score harder or easier than their fellow judges that they help create the tables mentioned above and introduce more luck into the outcome of the contests.
  • Somehow limit the amount of "super judging" or judges looking for things to judge that may not be part of the KCBS rules.

So as most of you know, I've been in the tent this past year working on my Masters certification. And every time I'm in there, Kathleen and Kelly methodically address EXACTLY what you asked for in your bullet points. In that sense, it would be good for cooks to come into the tent and feel the reassurance that I do, when our representatives take all of the care that they do, every single time.

#18 Kevin Barteaux

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:03 PM

View PostDonna Fong, on 22 July 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

So as most of you know, I've been in the tent this past year working on my Masters certification. And every time I'm in there, Kathleen and Kelly methodically address EXACTLY what you asked for in your bullet points. In that sense, it would be good for cooks to come into the tent and feel the reassurance that I do, when our representatives take all of the care that they do, every single time.

That is great to hear Donna. I have heard that K&K emphasize judging the meat rather than the garnish when coming up with an appearance score, which I have always found refreshing. It's good to know they are addressing other points as well. We are lucky to have them as reps in California. Perhaps these are some of the topics that could be added to the class.

#19 Kevin Barteaux

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:13 PM

View PostSteve Wilson, on 22 July 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

I would like to see the class add a few seasoned cooks to the class topics to get their takes. Granted Harry, Donna and Scott all have a vast wealth of experience from the outside of the judge's tent, but I think it would be very important to have the judges understand what we cooks are striving for, and explain how we feel about the scoring. Get our take on average or what differentiates an 8 from a 9 to us.

I am actually a bit apprehensive about seasoned cooks taking part in instructing the class Steve. I think it is important that our own biases do not influences or dictate what judges should look for when scoring our entries. We cook under the rules, and it is up to the judges to interpret how we did.

#20 Jon Green

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:43 PM

View PostKevin Barteaux, on 22 July 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

  • Come to a consensus or understanding of what KCBS means by "Average"

I don't know that I've ever been given any guidance as to what "average" means to KCBS, but I use the Las Vegas buffet analogy a lot when I'm judging. Average (score of 6) means I picked it up from the buffet and it's just OK. I'll eat it, but next time I go back up I'm probably not going to pick up that dish again. A 7 means I'll go back for seconds. An 8 means I'm definitely visiting this particular buffet again next time I'm in town. 9 means I'm coming back the next night and I'll stand in one of those hour-long lines for it. Going in the other direction, a 5 means I'll complain about the crappy meal on Facebook. A 4 means I took one bite and I'm not going to eat the rest. And I've never given scores of 3 or 2 so I haven't developed my analogy yet but it would involve calling over the manager to try to get my money back. :)




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