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New KCBS Team Detail Reports (Our Score Sheets)


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#1 Steve Wilson

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:05 AM

I don't know how many of you have seen the new score sheets but we were privileged to get them at The Wine Country Big Q. I like 'em. On the front page we only used to get the judges scores, now there are several new elements, you are given your placing in each category then the judges 3 scores , as had before but at the end of that line you see what table your entry was scored at and your rank on that particular table. The next line has the calculated scores based on the 3 scores from each judge. The next line, which is the most interesting to me, is Judge Average Score. As an example judge 4 gave me 9 8 9 which calculate to a score of 33.7028, the Judge average score was 29.3285. This judge really liked my Bird.

In comparison, Judge # 3 scored me 8 7 8 for a total score of 29.7028. This judge's average at my table was 31.2094. This judge did not like my bird as much as judge # 4. To me you get a real good idea if you are getting credible scoring.

The Best example of this was in Pork where I was lucky enough to place 1st in.

Judge 1 judge 2 judge 3 judge 4 judge 5 judge 6
8 7 7 9 9 9 8 9 9 9 9 8 9 9 9 8 8 8 (Judges Scores)
28.5600 36.0000 35.4400 34.8572 36.0000 32.0000 (Calculated Scores)
29.8648 32.7011 31.4664 31.7411 32.2695 29.0574 (Judge's Average scores for this meat at this table).

You would expect to have higher scores then the judges average for the 1st place pork, but note judge 1 has given a score 1.3848 below what they were scoring the rest of my table while the rest were all in agreement that they were eating something special.

Very interesting statistics.

Edited by Steve Wilson, 18 July 2013 - 09:08 AM.


#2 Dana Myers

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:43 AM

The other thing to note is that the category score-sheets show which teams were at your judge table, and, of course, you can figure out your ranking among them.

#3 Dale Ginos

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:51 PM

I think I might like this.

#4 Robert Bass

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:10 PM

View PostSteve Wilson, on 18 July 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

You would expect to have higher scores then the judges average for the 1st place pork,

Hi Steve,

Revisiting your comment. Wasn't your average score, or rather the average of the score that counts 34.88994 ? Oh... A Big Congratulations on the 1st Place !

Bob

#5 Darry Smith

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:31 PM

I like it, more info.

#6 Dana Myers

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:32 PM

View PostSteve Wilson, on 18 July 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

I don't know how many of you have seen the new score sheets but we were privileged to get them at The Wine Country Big Q. I like 'em. On the front page we only used to get the judges scores, now there are several new elements, you are given your placing in each category then the judges 3 scores , as had before but at the end of that line you see what table your entry was scored at and your rank on that particular table. The next line has the calculated scores based on the 3 scores from each judge. The next line, which is the most interesting to me, is Judge Average Score. As an example judge 4 gave me 9 8 9 which calculate to a score of 33.7028, the Judge average score was 29.3285. This judge really liked my Bird.

In comparison, Judge # 3 scored me 8 7 8 for a total score of 29.7028. This judge's average at my table was 31.2094. This judge did not like my bird as much as judge # 4. To me you get a real good idea if you are getting credible scoring.

The Best example of this was in Pork where I was lucky enough to place 1st in.

Judge 1 judge 2 judge 3 judge 4 judge 5 judge 6
8 7 7 9 9 9 8 9 9 9 9 8 9 9 9 8 8 8 (Judges Scores)
28.5600 36.0000 35.4400 34.8572 36.0000 32.0000 (Calculated Scores)
29.8648 32.7011 31.4664 31.7411 32.2695 29.0574 (Judge's Average scores for this meat at this table).

You would expect to have higher scores then the judges average for the 1st place pork, but note judge 1 has given a score 1.3848 below what they were scoring the rest of my table while the rest were all in agreement that they were eating something special.

Very interesting statistics.

Remember the low score at a table is thrown out.

#7 Dana Myers

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:34 PM

View PostRobert Bass, on 18 July 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

Hi Steve,

Revisiting your comment. Wasn't your average score, or rather the average of the score that counts 34.88994 ? Oh... A Big Congratulations on the 1st Place !

Bob

The score sheet doesn't calculate the average score for the entry - it calculates the judge average scores.

#8 Tracy Allen

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:50 PM

The new scoring program is nice and provides a lot of new information to the teams.

However, did y'all notice the lack of comment cards now! Actually NO comment cards, possibly a permanant change.

You need to let KCBS BoD know how you feel about not getting any more comment cards at bod@kcbs.us

I found my job as a judge very difficult as I was not able to tell a team why I gave them a 4 or any other score for that matter.

#9 Robert Bass

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:01 PM

Dana,
I wonder if the average of all teams judged at that table (for that particular meat) using only the valid scores might be interesting to see and somewhat more useful than what this report currently provides. I believe this might also answer Steve's question.

Edited by Robert Bass, 18 July 2013 - 09:09 PM.


#10 Chuck Collondrez

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:52 AM

I think the comment cards are great but I hate getting comment cards on 8th and 9th what the judges need to do because you can't win the competition which sevens give your comment cards on the 7th or lower.so not getting comment cards does not bother me.

#11 Matt Dalton

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:27 AM

I like the new score sheet..the only letter KCBS would be getting from me would be a comment card..it would read great job 999

#12 Steve Wilson

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 08:52 AM

View PostRobert Bass, on 18 July 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

Hi Steve,

Revisiting your comment. Wasn't your average score, or rather the average of the score that counts 34.88994 ? Oh... A Big Congratulations on the 1st Place !

Bob
Bob, as good as our competition fields are, even the score that is dumped is important. I can't tell you how many times I have had 4 judge's in the same ballpark and get two in a different area code. Granted one is dropped but if you get two Rogue judge's at 1 table, your dead. Just looking at my example above their were two judges at my table with scoring averages significantly lower than the other 4 judges. Check out judge 1 & 6's averages. They didn't bang me, fortunately, but their averages are 2 to 3 points per entry lower than the other 4 judges. In our tight fields that's the difference between being in the money and not.

Judge 1 in particular needs to be talked with. This pork entry was right on as determined by the end results. They were 3.4400 points lower than their table mates. Too much in my opinion. Fortunately their score was dumped.

Edited by Steve Wilson, 19 July 2013 - 08:54 AM.


#13 Matt Dalton

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 09:09 AM

I think the best part of this new scoring is that it will expose judges that always give wacky scores..high or low..like someone giving out 4's on a consistent basis or a judge that always scores a 9..hopefully it will keep a table of death from happening at every comp..and that's a good thing..I could really care less about comment cards as well..if they do make a comeback IMO they should be limited to a two word response like too salty,overcooked,too sweet ect..we don't need a novel.

#14 Steve Wilson

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 09:20 AM

Absolutely, I think you are speaking for most of us cooks. Well said!

#15 Dana Myers

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:11 AM

View PostSteve Wilson, on 19 July 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Judge 1 in particular needs to be talked with. This pork entry was right on as determined by the end results. They were 3.4400 points lower than their table mates.

Wait, what if Judge 1 was a Master CBJ with 75 contests and years of experience an the other judges just took CBJ school? Just because a judge doesn't like your box as much as the other judges doesn't mean they're wrong or need talking to. It's a slippery slope.

#16 Robert Bass

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:26 PM

Thank You Dana !

Edited by Robert Bass, 19 July 2013 - 03:14 PM.


#17 john hendrickson

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:17 PM

I think the new system will be good if the monitor the judges averages. It shows if we got on a tuff scoring table. By showing the competition we were against may answer some of the scoring questions. I take pictures of all my boxes. When I get low appearance score I compare it to a previous box that scored well??? At times I can't see any difference. Like Steve said, with he fields we have this year every point counts. No one has mentioned that he scoring percentages have been changed to reduce the amount of tie scores




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